Protestantism in the N.O. & a Book on It

From TIA’s files:

Bishop Boaventura Kloppenburg, a Brazilian Franciscan theologian and perito at Vatican II, wrote a 5-volume chronicle of the Council. He was also a member of the Vatican International Theological Commission (ITC) and the Bishop of Novo Hamburg in Rio Grande do Sul, Brazil.

Below is an excerpt from a book about him where he compares the Novus Ordo Mass with the so-called mass of the Protestants:

Msgr. Boaventura Kloppenburg worked hard to prepare the 2nd Meeting of the Studies Commission for the Bilateral International Dialogue between the Catholic Church and the Lutherans from January 8 to 12, 1974, in Rome. There were 10 representatives from each side. From São Leopoldo, Lutheran pastor Bertoldo Weber was present.

It was interesting when the Lutheran group celebrated the Holy Supper presided over by German Lutheran bishop Hermann Dietsfelbinger. “The Catholic group attended. We see in moments like this, the absurdity of our separation,” Kloppenburg stated to Diário 11 on January 10.

He continued, “Yesterday they attended our Eucharist without being able to receive Communion. Today we attended theirs, without being able to receive communion. However, their mass is almost equal to ours. Only at the end was I shocked at the difference: on the altar there were the leftover hosts and in the chalice there was still a good quantity of wine. I reverently took the hosts and the chalice to the sacristy, and the Lutheran celebrant (Dietsfelbinger) just put all the hosts together with the others, and poured the wine back into the bottle for the next celebration.”

Excerpt from Boaventura Kloppenburg, 90 anos por Cristo e sua Igreja [Ninety years for Christ and His Church], 2008, Edições Eletrônicas Veritatis Splendor

Dear Sir or Madam,,

I am trying to locate a copy of a book by Arnaldo Xavier Da Silveira published in French in 1975. The French title is :

La nouvelle messe de Paul VI, qu'en penser? or L'Ordo Missae de Paul VI, qu'en penser?

The English title is: The Theological and Moral Implications of the New Ordo Missae.

I understand from searching your website that Prof. Plinio actually commissioned the work to the author.

Do you know where I could either borrow or purchase a copy? My son is writing a college paper on the protestant influences within the Novus Ordo and this book has been recommended as an excellent source. But we cannot find a copy to borrow or buy.

I read French fluently, so a copy in French would work. Cost is a concern, so borrowing is preferable.

Any suggestions or help will be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

     Sincerely,

     M.G.


TIA responds:

Dear M.G.,

The Portuguese original of this book is available here. The English translation that we know is available here. We do not have a French translation available.

The part that interests you - the analysis of the Novus Ordo Mass - is the first part of this study.

     Cordially,

     TIA correspondence desk

Good Morning TIA,

Just a few thoughts on the Saint Dolls comment you posted some time ago, which I read recently.

FYI

When I was a college student I use to repair/restore statues to earn a couple of bucks for school. One lady asked me to repair a china doll she had of St. Bernadette.

This was a very fine porcelain “Doll” that was displayed and cared for, not a rag doll to be tossed in a corner and laundered. This was most definitely a “Prized Possession” of the little girls of the family. They kept St. Bernadette in a special display case and took great pride in laundering, starching and pressing her historically accurate attire. They treated her with honor and respect.

They were disappointed when mom handed her to me and elated when she was returned to the family. At the time, I thought what a great way to encourage devotion, honor, and respect for a Saint.

Just my thoughts.

     God Bless you for all of your good work!

     M.S.

TIA,

I am wondering what are the others books for the Series "Eli, Eli, Lama Sabacthani", because I had purchased the following volumes:

- Animus Injuriandi I (Volume 02)

- Animus Injuriandi II (Volume 03)

- Animus Delendi I (Volume 04)

- Animus Delendi II (Volume 05)

- Will He Find Faith (Volume 06)

-Ecclesia (Volume 11)

I know that the Volume 01 is related to "In the Murky Waters of Vatican II".

I did appreciate these books!

     Best regards.

     N.F.


TIA responds:

Hello N.F.,

You are right - Volume I of the series is In the Murky Waters of Vatican II, which is a must read. You should purchase it.

Another is volume VII, Destructio Dei, published at the end of last year.

With this latest book, TIA has published 8 of the 11 volumes of the series. The next one to be published will be volume 8.

If you want to have the complete Collection, we believe you should also try to purchase the Special Editions of the Collection that were published, which are:

Quo Vadis Petre? - directed to John Paul II on the ecumenical festivities of the Millennium - sold out;

Previews of the New Papacy - a book of over 500 photographs that illustrates the other volumes of the collections;

Vatican II, Homosexuality and Pedophilia - an appendix to Volume I on the moral crisis that is devastating the clergy as a consequence of Vatican II.

We hope this provides the information you requested.

     Cordially,

     TIA correspondence desk

Dear TIA,

While doing a Google search something popped up about Catholic priests facing East. This is the first time I have heard anything about the direction the priest is facing, other than traditionally he faced the altar, not the people.

I read a posting that stated traditional churches were built with altars facing West and the priest would face West to say Mass.

Please provide your insight about whether there is anything to this.

     Thank you.

     A.E.


TIA responds:

Dear A.E.,

Regarding the question of the churches facing east, this is what we know:

For the earliest Catholic churches it was very important to face east [ad orientam]. It referred to the building of a church on an east-west axis with the chancel and main altar to the east so that Mass was always celebrated facing eastward.

Prior to 1900, almost every Catholic church was built facing east. This was the direction from which Christ will come in the second coming. Our Lord Himself says: "As the lightning comes forth from the east and shines even to the west, so shall the coming of the Son of Man be." Since we wait for Him, we pray toward the East. This is the unwritten tradition of the Apostles.

For practical purposes, in all those churches for a priest to face east is tantamount to saying Mass looking toward the altar, not toward the people.

It should be noted, however, that not all Catholic churches are built facing east. Indeed, there are famous exceptions to the rule, most notably St. Peter’s, the main altar of which does not face east. But despite exceptions, ad orientum was the rule.

So, the problem is when we are in a church that was not built facing east, but in another direction, depending on the different urban plans of our cities, like many of the churches we attend. In these churches, the priest should say his Mass turned toward the altar no matter what direction it faces, and not toward the people.

If a supposed traditional priest comes to your community saying that the traditional way of saying Mass is turned toward the east and, thus, he says the Mass turned toward the people in order to face the east side of the church, you can be sure that this priest found a pretext to go along with the Novus Ordo fashion.

We hope this information attends to your inquiry.

     Cordially,

     TIA correspondence desk